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The McLaughlin Group

Issues: The Attack on France's Charlie Hebdo; Jeb Bush; U.S.-Mexico Relations

Participants:
John McLaughlin, Host
Pat Buchanan, Author and Columnist
Eleanor Clift, The Daily Beast
Tom Rogan, National Review/Daily Telegraph
Mort Zuckerman, U.S. News & World Report

Taped: Friday, January 9, 2015
Broadcast: Weekend of January 9-10-11, 2015

ANNOUNCER: From Washington, THE MCLAUGHLIN GROUP, the American original. For over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, HOST: Issue One: Paris Attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): An act of exceptional barbarism has been committed in Paris against a newspaper, a paper, in other words, an organ of free speech. It's an act against journalists. Today, France is in shock, the shock of a multiple assassination, a terrorist attack.

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): It was a brazen and deadly attack on Wednesday noon in Paris. Masked gunmen shouting "Allahu Akbar", "God is great", stormed the headquarters of a French satirical newspaper called "Charlie Hebdo" and opened fire. Twelve people were killed, including the magazine's editor-in-chief and two policemen. One wounded officer shot dead at point language, 11 people were wounded.

The gunmen then escaped in a getaway car. A survivor of the attack said the gunmen spoke fluent French and claimed they were from al-Qaeda.

This is not the first time "Charlie Hebdo" has been attacked. Its offices were firebombed in 2011 after the publication published a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed on its cover.

Many Muslims consider drawings of the prophet blasphemous.

President Obama condemned the attack as cowardly and evil and expressed solidarity with the French people.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The values we share with the French people, a belief, a universal belief in freedom of expression is something that can't be silenced.

MCLAUGHLIN: U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said brave and decent people around the world would not be intimidated by such violence.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Free expression and a free press are core values -- they are universal values -- principles that can be attacked but never eradicated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLAUGHLIN: On Friday, French police had cornered the two suspects in a printing plant outside Paris, two brothers named Said and Cherif Kouachi. A counterterror unit broke through the door and shot dead the Kouachi brothers.

Question: older brother Said Kouachi appears to have been trained in Yemen by al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. Is that attack a wake-up call about the dangers of radicalized Muslims with American or European citizenship returning to carry out attacks?

Pat Buchanan?

PAT BUCHANAN, AUTHOR & COLUMNIST: You got that right, John. Look, this was an act of barbarity.

But take a look at it from the standpoint of these two brothers. They went in and wiped out this anti-Islamic, scurrilous entity which had insulted the prophet, they avenged the prophet, they ran a military operation, they escaped, they got the president of France addressing them, the president of the United States, they go up and have the attention of the entire world for two days then they come out like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid walking out shooting and they are killed in the process.

What this is going to do a send a message to all those young anonymous terrorists who go over to fight that war in Syria or Iraq, and they’re going to say, if you really want headline, if you really want to make an impact, if you really want to immortalized yourself, why blow yourself up in a suicide bombing? The way to do it is in the West. Your question is exactly right.

MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor?

ELEANOR CLIFT, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, the other side of that is that tens of thousands of people took to the streets of Paris and said "Je Suis Charlie," "Je Suis Ahmed", because one of the people they murdered was a Muslim, and the cartoons that they allegedly object to and find so offensive are now printed everywhere around the world.

So, I don’t know that they accomplish a lot. But I think we are looking at a noxious stew, particularly in Europe where this anti-immigrant sense is really strong plus anti-Semitism is on the rise.

And how would it affect the politics? You’ve got the National Front Party which in the past has been one step removed from a white French supremacy group is now moving into the mainstream and I think Marie Le Pen is trying to bring that party into the mainstream. And if the election were held today, that party would win.

So, this is transforming politics in Europe. And the implication here, we've been waiting more than a dozen years for al-Qaeda style mass events to take place. I think this shows how easy it is to stage much smaller events and the militaristic approach of these young men shows that training in Yemen, training in Syria has metastasized and really, I think, corrupted the minds of a lot of young men.

MCLAUGHLIN: At least one of the attackers in Paris appears to have been in Yemen. What does that tell you?

TOM ROGAN, NATIONAL REVIEW/DAILY TELEGRAPH: Well, I think that’s very interesting because al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has been a group that has lost some attention as ISIS has come into the news media over the past year.

MCLAUGHLIN: What's ISIS?

ROGAN: ISIS is the Islamic -- well, now, the Islamic State, but originally, Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham or Syria, greater Syria.

But, anyway, al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is a very, very capable terrorist group. The leader Nasir al-Wuhayshi is known as someone immensely capable. They had a video last year in the summer where they had a very open parade, which was basically sending a message the drones haven't got us. The bomb maker, Ibrahim al-Asiri, who is known for very, very good technical skill and smuggling explosive devices inside the human body, but in other mechanisms.

And this shows, as well, that they are broaching into that area of trying to recruit Europeans in a way that goes undetected by intelligence services, and push it -- again, as Eleanor points out, it is not that difficult to have a small group of people who stay off the grid and then go commit an attack. And, unfortunately, we should get ready for more of this.

MCLAUGHLIN: The U.S. put a drone in Yemen that killed somebody. Who was he?

BUCHANAN: Awlaki.

ROGAN: Awlaki. Yes.

MCLAUGHLIN: Who is he?

ROGAN: He was an American preacher who then -- extremist preacher who went over there to Yemen to join the group.

MCLAUGHLIN: What happened before that in his life in Texas?

ROGAN: He was in the United States during -- producing video sermons and he, you know, is a big recruiting source for young disillusioned men because of his charisma.

BUCHANAN: They killed his son as well.

MCLAUGHLIN: What’s that?

BUCHANAN: They killed his son as well.

MCLAUGHLIN: That was an accident.

BUCHANAN: Well, we killed him as well.

MCLAUGHLIN: Fourteen-year-old.

BUCHANAN: Yes, well, that’s --

ROGAN: He was in the car, yes.

BUCHANAN: But that doesn't --.

MCLAUGHLIN: So, Yemen figures heavily in this location of terrorists, correct?

BUCHANAN: Yes.

MCLAUGHLIN: And that's been the case for some time, correct?

ROGAN: It has been.

MCLAUGHLIN: More so than any other state?

ROGAN: I wouldn't say that. I think Syria now is --

BUCHANAN: It's the most effective state in terms of terror abroad as of now.

ROGAN: Yes.

MCLAUGHLIN: Mort?

MORT ZUCKERMAN, US NEWS & WORLD REPORT: Well, we are entering an era, I think, that is going to be very nervous-making because you have the capacity of people who are willing to die in the most extraordinary ways and to kill a lot of people in the process. And you can shake up the sense of security that we have in this country and other countries that are essentially Western Democrat are going to experience in their countries.

So, it's going to be very difficult to stop and we're going to have to be very aggressive in terms of how we penetrate those groups and get enough intelligence to stop them before they do a lot of damage.

MCLAUGHLIN: There was an earlier attack last year in a Jewish museum in Belgium that should have been a wake up call. Are familiar with that?

ZUCKERMAN: Yes, but you are right. It should have been a wake up call. I don't know what it's going to take in a sense to get a lot of the intelligence services and the local military and police forces to get on basically on guard.

BUCHANAN: John, one of these guys went into the Jewish market before Saturday. He was allied with these two brothers and he took hostages there, but that's a soft target. How can you defend -- how can you defend every market and every Jewish community center in the country if they are going to go after soft targets?

And problem was this was a success against a relatively soft target.

CLIFT: Well, in fairness, Europe has lived with terrorist attacks for a long time and London tube, the Madrid train -- I mean, this is not that new.

What is different about this is that it seems to strike at the very heart of sort of French consciousness. This satirical newspaper is not something I would particularly be interested in reading. I don't think it's all that funny and I think it's unnecessarily provocative.

But I will go to the barricades to defend their right to do it, and I think the French people really feel like their values were assaulted and they are not going to let this disrupt their way of life.

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: Marie Le Pen, Again, I’m coming back to her, she said, time's up. She wants to return to the death penalty. She wants to close down the borders. So, this becomes a political discussion now.

BUCHANAN: Let me say this -- you’ve got to ask about that magazine as well. They went out. They insult the prophet repeatedly. They’ve got these lewd crude cartoons, they know what happened with the Danish cartoon, where they had the prophet with a head of a bomb. They know what happened with Theo Van Gough, and they keep at it, and they provoked them.

And in the Muslim world, I can tell you, below the level of governments, there are probably a lot of people saying those guys did the right thing and gone after those satirical --

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: Those Muslims are wrong. Listen, you know, we have a society where people are allowed to say anything they want.

BUCHANAN: You can say they’re wrong. I know, but what I’m saying is there's polarization here.

ROGAN: Well, that's too bad for those. I mean, the political culture in Islam -- this is a big problem. Now, most Muslims are law-abiding people, but there is this fringe that thinks it's OK and you see this even with some imams condemning, coming out, there’s public affairs people, personal British news the other day saying it's outrageous, but -- I don't want to see these buts anymore and I think it’s up to us to say, you know what --

CLIFT: Another but here, you can say anything, but you have to be aware there could be consequences.

BUCHANAN: Exactly.

MCLAUGHLIN: There were three --

CLIFT: In this country we do have limits on hate speech.

ROGAN: Well, but it’s not --

MCLAUGHLIN: The attackers were Cherif Kouachi, age 32, in French intelligence files since 2005, 10 years ago in the files. On U.S. no-fly list, since 2005, arrest for trying to travel to Syria to join anti-U.S. insurgency in Iraq. He wanted to fight Americans.

CLIFT: Well --

MCLAUGHLIN: Second person is his brother, Said Kouachi, age 34, also on the U.S. no-fly list and at one time kept under surveillance by French authorities. U.S. officials said on January 8th -- that's this week -- he trained with al-Qaeda in Yemen.

Hamyd Mourad, age 18, surrendered to French police when surrounded, no previously ties with terrorism.

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: He said he had nothing to do with it.

BUCHANAN: They have nothing to do with the third guy, John.

But, look, these guys went to earth, they were on the watch list, people looking at them but they can't keep watch on everybody every today.

CLIFT: That's right.

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.

BUCHANAN: So, they plotted and planned quietly and carried this out.

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: And the French will go through what the U.S. went through. There will be a sort of 9/11 Commission that will look at every built of this to see where they fell down.

But Pat's point is well taken. You cannot keep tabs on everyone who seems suspicious.

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. Well, how many people are there that the FBI and our other surveillance authorities in this country are watching? How many are there out there approximately? Do you know?

ROGAN: Hundreds.

MCLAUGHLIN: One hundred?

BUCHANAN: There's hundreds.

CLIFT: Many, many.

BUCHANAN: A number have gone to Syria and Iraq.

MCLAUGHLIN: My figure is 100.

ROGAN: There are thousands in the U.K. and Europe --

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: -- that we are concerned about, so you have three threats. You have number one, you have the original people, al-Qaeda we have seen before, who were operated by, then you have number two, you have people coming back from Syria who have trained, who have gone there as appears these people with Yemen, and then you have number three, people who have watched online on YouTube and being inspired and decided I can be a terrorist --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: We have seen for 48 hours, we have been riveted to that television all over the world and they have done it, these people coming back.

And what frightens me, to a degree is that, look, these guys succeeded. I mean, they are --

CLIFT: Their faces will be forgotten in three days. And they are triggering revulsion.

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: What about their people rather than our people? You’ve got to see what they think about --

MCLAUGHLIN: How many?

CLIFT: Their people are a lot more --

MCLAUGHLIN: Excuse me --

CLIFT: Their people who don't believe in those tactics. And what they’ve done.

BUCHANAN: You don’t need a lot.

MCLAUGHLIN: Excuse me. How many European citizens from Muslim immigrant communities are estimated to be fighting alongside ISIS? What's ISIS?

ROGAN: The Islamic State of Iraq and greater Syria. Now, the Islamic State.

MCLAUGHLIN: The Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria, ISIS, right.

ROGAN: Yes.

MCLAUGHLIN: Alongside ISIS are AQAP. What’s AQAP?

ROGAN: Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

MCLAUGHLIN: Correct. How many are they?

ROGAN: How many, what?

MCLAUGHLIN: How many are estimated?

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: European authorities estimate as many as blank European jihadists fighting alongside ISIS and AQAP in Syria and Yemen.

ROGAN: Thousands.

MCLAUGHLIN: How many?

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Five thousand. Yes.

And how long is it going to be before one or two, a half a dozen, or a dozen, a hundred of those come over to the United States?

ROGAN: That's what they are worried about. How long is it going to be before a British passport holder gets on a plane, smiles at a customs guy, goes into a gun store and starts shooting --

MCLAUGHLIN: Has that happened already in Britain?

ROGAN: No.

CLIFT: No.

ROGAN: But they are back. They’d be plotting. And they’ve arrested people who’ve been to Syria to try and do --

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: How many have been arrested in Britain?

ROGAN: They’ve arrested a lot of who traveled, probably about 50 now. But I think the active plot is about --

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Does one passport work in another jurisdiction?

ROGAN: That's the problem, that you have a British passport, it’s easy to get into the United States.

BUCHANAN: But those London bombers were home-grown Brits. Second generation people, John, like many of these guys are second generation in Paris.

MCLAUGHLIN: Issue Two: Dynasty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): Jeb Bush has formed a presidential exploratory committee and he's resigned from corporate boards and committee and he's released emails from s tenure as Florida governor. Jeb is showing more than ankle, he's baring knees and hip.

If Governor Bush does run and if he wins the Republican nomination and then wins the general election, he will be make history as the third Bush to become president of the United States. A big deal? No, the Bushes are a dynasty and dynasties run in the U.S. DNA.

Notable examples are the Rockefellers, the Kennedies, the Clintons, the Browns of California, the Cuomos of New York, the Nunns of Georgia, the Pryors of Arkansas, and the Bushes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLAUGHLIN: Question: if Jeb Bush runs, is he an instant front runner for the GOP presidential nomination?

Eleanor?

CLIFT: He's already front runner and he's smart to have made his move early because in today's Republican Party, there's only one for one sane character. He's considered moderate, he's run a state for two terms, he can raise money, which is really key.

And I think the last name Bush is not going to hurt him as much people might think.

MCLAUGHLIN: Name identification.

CLIFT: I think we live in a world of branding and I think the American people, they know the brand and they are comfortable with it. So, I think if he runs he has a good shot to win.

MCLAUGHLIN: So, he's got the name and he's got the Bush political network.

What do you think?

ZUCKERMAN: He certainly has all of that, but he has something else that's more important than any of those things. He's got real talent. This man is an -- was an extraordinary governor, he's an extraordinary speaker. I happened to attend a meeting that he had just two days ago, and he was phenomenal. I mean, there were 100 people. They are all helping him out financially, but he was phenomenal and everyone in that room knew it.

He answered question after question -- without knowing what the questions could be, he is totally informed about the issues facing this country and he’s not a right-winger in the Republican Party.

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: Why did you gesture toward me there, Mort?

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

ZUCKERMAN: I have a short shoulder, Pat. It couldn't go any further.

BUCHANAN: He made a very smart move, moving early. He has bulled both Chris Christie, who is another candidate for the establishment title, if you will, and Mitt Romney have to move if they are going to get into this thing. He may have cleared the field and if he does, John, he at least gets to the finals, I think, because I believe the establishment winds up with one candidate in the finals and the outsiders, populists, the conservatives, whatever you want to call it, libertarians, they get a candidate.

MCLAUGHLIN: Is it a blessing or a curse to be front runner?

BUCHANAN: It's both. I mean, it's a blessing because you can get all this money --.

MCLAUGHLIN: Is it more a blessing than a curse?

BUCHANAN: Well, the front runner gets chopped up bad in the --

MCLAUGHLIN: There’s more press coverage for the frontrunner.

BUCHANAN: He gets chopped up. Dole got chopped up.

MCLAUGHLIN: Right.

ROGAN: There are conservatives --

MCLAUGHLIN: That’s what happened to you when you ran for president.

BUCHANAN: I was never front runner.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: You would be president today, wouldn't you? You ran twice.

BUCHANAN: Three times.

MCLAUGHLIN: Three times.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: My new book on you.

BUCHANAN: I don't have a dynasty either.

CLIFT: Thank goodness.

ROGAN: Yes, just very quickly, I think the conservative activists, the problem with Jeb Bush is he is unpopular because of Common Core, which is an education federal thing, federal mandate for. So, conservative activists have problem with that --

BUCHANAN: Immigration.

ROGAN: And immigration.

MCLAUGHLIN: Let's hear a little bit more on bush on videotape. Who is Jeb Bush? Here is who?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): Born 1953, 61 years of age. Bilingual, fluent in Spanish. Religion: Catholic. Married, 1974, 41 years. Wife, Columba, a Mexican-born U.S. citizen. Three children: Noelle, Jeb Jr. and George. Son George is the Texas land commissioner, responsible for managing billions of dollars in state assets and mineral rights.

Jeb's work history: banking, real estate, entrepreneurial ventures and, of course, governor of Florida two terms, 1999 to 2006. .

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLAUGHLIN: Question: regardless of his last name, does Jeb Bush's previous experience qualify him for the Oval Office?

Tom Rogan?

ROGAN: Yes, I think it does if we look at previous presidential candidates in comparison, but ultimately, you know, the question of qualifications I think becomes -- you know, any candidate can have the qualifications if the primary voters like them. That’s going to be --

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Two terms as governor --

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: And he has business experience.

MCLAUGHLIN: Exciting case.

ROGAN: He's intellectually curious. He speaks Spanish.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: What's the problem of the current governor down there who is going to have a second term, but is a figure of, what?

BUCHANAN: Controversy.

MCLAUGHLIN: Contradiction in a way.

BUCHANAN: John, he’s got the experience, he’s got the credential, the resume, no doubt about it. But, you mentioned immigration, you mentioned Common Core, and there's a sense on the part of an awful lot of conservatives that he is the moderate candidate who is going to be put up as McCain was, and the others were. And, frankly, some of them will go after him very, very hard, we’re going to see what he's made of.

MCLAUGHLIN: Is he not eminently qualified?

BUCHANAN: He’s -- I put qualified under the --

MCLAUGHLIN: Two terms as governor of Florida.

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: He’s part of a family who’s been involved --

(CROSSTALK)

ZUCKERMAN: He understands all the issues like no other candidate that I’ve heard.

CLIFT: He can answer questions when he doesn't even know what the question is going to be.

(LAUGHTER)

CLIFT: I couldn't resist that.

I think his biggest challenge --

ZUCKERMAN: Thank you. I appreciate that. That disqualifies me for a lot of things.

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: His biggest challenge is that he hasn't been in the arena for 10 years.

BUCHANAN: Right.

CLIFT: He's rusty. He's not a charismatic campaigner and --.

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, how much of the non-aligned voters in America will Bush be able to carry? Non-aligned.

BUCHANAN: At one point last year, Bush, there were 49 or 50 percent of the people in the country said they wouldn't vote for another Bush. He's got a problem to overcome in the general election.

ZUCKERMAN: In the latest poll, he's 6 percent ahead of the next Republican in the party.

BUCHANAN: That's not much, Mort. That’s not much.

ZUCKERMAN: I’m not saying it's much. It’s better than any other place to be.

CLIFT: Right.

ZUCKERMAN: First place is always (INAUDIBLE) in my experience.

CLIFT: There's only room for one mainstream establishment candidate and if he's only one, he’s got a good chance of getting a plurality.

MCLAUGHLIN: Unlike your hero, President Obama, Bush has experience.

CLIFT: President Obama is doing pretty well --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: A candidate, an outside candidate, who doesn’t have those credentials can win. It’s tougher in the Republican Party.

MCLAUGHLIN: Words to live by.

Issue Three: Pena Nieto in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is a pleasure to welcome once again President Pena Nieto as well as his delegation. It's appropriate that our first meeting of the year is with one of our closest allies, neighbors and friends.

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): President Obama welcomed the leader of Mexico this week, President Pena Nieto.

But while the body language was warm, the conversation was deadly serious.

OBAMA: Our mission is to be a friendly supporter of Mexico in its effort to eliminate the scourge of violence of the drug cartels that are responsible for so much tragedy inside of Mexico and we want to be a good partner in that process, recognizing that ultimately, it will be up to Mexico and its law enforcement to carry out the key decisions that need to be made.

MCLAUGHLIN: "Scourge of violence" is how President Obama describes the war between drug cartels and the government of Mexico. The United States has spent billions of dollars to support the Mexican government in this violence abatement. The number of Mexicans who have lost their lives in this crime war since 2007 is over 100,000, climaxing in September with the kidnapping and murder of 43 male college students by a drug cartel believed to be collaborating with corrupt Mexican officials.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLAUGHLIN: Question: Should the Obama administration be doing more to support Mexico's government against the drug cartels or is this a Mexican crisis that requires a Mexican response exclusively?

Mort Zuckerman?

ZUCKERMAN: Well, I think there are things we should do together, particularly exchanging information and intelligence. But I don't think that America should get involved directly in what's happening on Mexican soil, nor do we think the Mexican army, or their other law enforcement agencies should get involved on American territory. But it is really critical that we have full exchange of intelligence because that's where each could help the other.

MCLAUGHLIN: U.S. operatives wear Mexican marine outfits to penetrate the cartels in Mexico. Do you think that's a good idea?

ZUCKERMAN: I have no problem with it, frankly. That's -- unless it's American soldiers who are doing that or American law enforcement officials. They are wearing American uniforms?

MCLAUGHLIN: They are wearing the uniforms of Mexican marines --

ZUCKERMAN: Oh, Mexican, I’m sorry.

MCLAUGHLIN: -- been involved in direct operations against cartels. Do you think that’s an over-involvement, or do you think we should be there?

ZUCKERMAN: No, I think we have to do that. It is a direct threat to the United States. All this drug traffic is a very important issue we have to cope with. This is one of the things we can do. I’m totally in support of it.

MCLAUGHLIN: How big is the traffic? How much is unloaded on the United States of drugs from Mexico?

ZUCKERMAN: I don't know the exact number except it's a very large amount.

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, and it has penetrating route, it doesn't just stop at the border, it goes up and up and up.

ZUCKERMAN: Of course. They are one of the -- maybe the principal supplier of drugs to the American population --

CLIFT: Yes, and we have the knowledge that we provide the demand. And so, this is a joint operation, if you will. So, I think involvement is correct.

But the corruption in Mexico is so extreme that when the police can't be dealt with, they bring in the army. And it turns out the army is infiltrated as well, because the big money is all in drug trafficking.

So, U.S. can't solve that alone, but the Mexicans need our help.

MCLAUGHLIN: Forty-three teacher, college students, were slaughtered, all boys, in Mexico. We still don't know what happened.

ROGAN: Right. And this is the issue. We have to be involved to some degree because we have idiots unfortunately. Unfortunately, a lot of them in my generation, who think it's cool to use cocaine and it’s something without consequences. But he does have consequences. The massacre of many Mexican innocent people. There's innocent kids.

And, look, we have to be involved, but there’s also hope. Colombia proves, 1980s, huge amounts of corruption, assassination of attorney general after attorney general. And today, Colombia is in good shape. Growing economy, stability, they’ve beaten the FARC, and that was American help for --

MCLAUGHLIN: They’ve beaten how long?

ROGAN: The FARC, Colombian Marxist rebels.

BUCHANAN: But we don’t have a --

ROGAN: A long-term commitment, smash Escobar --

BUCHANAN: We don't have a 2,000-mile border with Colombia.

Let me tell you, in the 21st century, as we move along, the United States (INAUDIBLE) will be hanging around in places like Iraq the central problem of security is going to be right in this hemisphere, it's going to come right out of Mexico, a country of 120 million, 130 million people.

MCLAUGHLIN: Is Pena being linked to the cartels by his opponents, political opponents?

BUCHANAN: Well, you know, I don’t know the truth. All these charges, a number of these Mexican presidents charges have been made about them, but corruption is pandemic in Mexico.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

MCLAUGHLIN: Predictions, Pat?

BUCHANAN: Major Hill battle over fast track authority for Obama.

MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor?

CLIFT: Jeb Bush will sew up the major GOP donors by spring.

MCLAUGHLIN: Tom?

ROGAN: Very regrettably, I believe there will be another terrorist attack in Europe in the next few months.

MCLAUGHLIN: Mort?

ZUCKEMAN: Jeb Bush will be the Republican nominee for the presidency.

MCLAUGHLIN: I predict the House and Senate will pass legislation approving the Keystone XL pipeline. As promised, President Obama will veto it, but his veto will be overridden with a help of a small block of Senate Democrats.

Bye-bye!

END