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The McLaughlin Group

Issues: Mars Exploration / Campus Censorship / New Star Trek Series

Participants:
John McLaughlin, Host
Pat Buchanan, Author & Columnist
Eleanor Clift, The Daily Beast
Clarence Page, Chicago Tribune
Tom Rogan, National Review/Opportunity Lives

Taped: Friday, November 27, 2015
Broadcast: Weekend of November 27-29, 2015

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ANNOUNCER: From Washington, THE MCLAUGHLIN GROUP, the American original. For over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, HOST: Issue One: Mars H20.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mars is not the dry, arid planet that we thought of in the past. Today, we’re going to announce that under certain circumstances, liquid water has been found on Mars.

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): This Thanksgiving, THE MCLAUGHLIN GROUP is focusing on three issues relevant to America’s future.

First up, Mars. Four hundred and five years ago, in 1610, the astronomer Galileo first used a telescope to gaze upon Mars. And today, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, NASA, continues Galileo’s efforts by sending probes like the automobile-sized Curiosity Rover to explore the Red Planet. But with an annual budget of over $17.5 billion, NASA is not cheap.

Still, NASA says it offers value for money. Making that case in recent months, NASA has announced the discovery of liquid water on Mars in warmer seasons. Because water is necessary for known forms of life, its presence means life might be possible on Mars, and water might also give future manned missions to Mars a measure of sustainment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCLAUGHLIN: Does the discovery of water on Mars make Obama’s 2010 decision to cancel the Constellation program and NASA’s manned Mars mission look short-sighted?

PAT BUCHANAN, AUTHOR & COLUMNIST: No, I don’t think so, John. There’s a lot of things we can do in space and we should be doing in space, my belief is, in interspace. Mars is pretty far out there, even though it’s one of the planets closest to the United States, just like Venus is on the other side.

But, look, we went to the moon, which is very close to us, which has -- I mean, Mars has, in terms of gravity, it’s not as big a planet as the United States. So, the gravity is not quite as strong.

And the idea -- if you’re thinking of it -- of sending a man to Mars, I see no purpose to it. And I can tell you one thing about him -- he ain’t or she ain’t coming back.

(LAUGHTER)

MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor?

ELEANOR CLIFT, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, the book in the movie "The Martian" starring Matt Damon, he does comeback with a lot of creativity in the --

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

CLIFT: You know, the movies, these are inspirational and I think it’s wonderful that we should still explore outer space. It’s up to the next president to decide if they want to put the money into it. I mean, it’s not out of the question. It’s still part of NASA’s goal to go to Mars, I think by 2035. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having that as a goal, and maybe the --

BUCHANAN: You’re going to put somebody up there?

CLIFT: -- austerity --

BUCHANAN: You’re going to put somebody up there?

CLIFT: Well, you know, the atmosphere is really not conducive. And what do they found, you know, they have a photograph of something that looks a little wet. It’s not like swimming pool size bodies of water.

BUCHANAN: It’s going to be a short stay, you’re saying.

(LAUGHTER)

CLIFT: Yes. I mean, it’s hard to imagine that Mars can sustain life, but it once did and, you know, maybe the way we sometimes treat our planet, it would be nice to have Mars as a backup plan. So, go for it.

MCLAUGHLIN: Can you foresee Paul Ryan, speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, confronting the launch of a manned mission to Mars?

TOM ROGAN, NATIONAL REVIEW/DAILY TELEGRAPH: No, I don’t think he would confront that. I think Paul Ryan is much more concerned about reduced size of the federal government and discretionary spending, but primarily entitlement reform, big taxes reform.

One of the reasons, though, where I think there’s relative consensus on NASA, is because it embodies in a pretty obvious and undeniable sense, the very best of what the United States can do, has done, stands for, inspiring the world, the space program. I mean, I remember a previous show I wasn’t on, but the Kennedy speech you showed, I mean, that kind of oratory and inspiration to a new generation to go forward. And actually, if you look at the size of the budget, you look at what we spend in other areas, I would say it’s comparatively small for the prospective gains that we get, both in terms of exploration and learning about the solar system and the universe, but more so in terms of the new technological development.

I would just say as one final point to that, the big thing on Mars with the water there, why it was such an important discovery I would say is that, the universe is a big place. And if we found water there, perhaps surprisingly --

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.

ROGAN: Then, what does that say about the potential of water elsewhere and thus through that water, potential of life elsewhere?

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, how big is the universe?

ROGAN: I do not know the --

(CROSSTALK)

CLARENCE PAGE, CHICAGO TRIBUNE: Larger than a bread box.

BUCHANAN: Our universe, mean around the sun, and then you move in to other areas, other suns and other planets -- I mean, the stars are actually suns, John.

CLIFT: Right.

BUCHANAN: And so, there’s other universes out there.

ROGAN: Well, solar systems --

MCLAUGHLIN: The universe as a collection let’s say --

ROGAN: Hundreds of billions of galaxies.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: By definition, a universe is universal. It’s everywhere.

PAGE: Actually --

BUCHANAN: The planets need certain requirements in terms of temperature and water and all the rest of it, gravity, for any kind of life to exist.

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE: Carl Sagan’s observation years ago. There are a hundred billion stars in our galaxy, and there are a hundred billion galaxies in the visible universe alone.

ROGAN: I think there’s now like 400 billion they believe.

MCLAUGHLIN: Visible universe.

PAGE: In the visible universe alone, yes.

MCLAUGHLIN: Wait a minute. We’ve got a visible universe and an invisible universe?

PAGE: Yes. That’s because, it’s invisible because our telescopes can’t see it yet. When we get better telescopes, then we’ll see it.

MCLAUGHLIN: You know it’s there?

PAGE: Yes, yes, I --

MCLAUGHLIN: Do you think we’re making news here on this program?

CLIFT: No.

PAGE: No, we’re not making news on this program. When we do --

BUCHANAN: Tom, you know why you can’t see it? You know why you can’t see it --

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: I’m waiting for Matt Damon and Tom Hanks to discover the universe.

BUCHANAN: The speed of light -- many of the stars that come in, the speed of light has finally traveled all the way from those universes to our world, and you can bet there’s new stars. I mean, that light from those stars has just arrived, amazing.

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: And that travels at 187,000 miles per second.

CLIFT: And we learned by spending government money and learning these things. That’s a good thing.

ROGAN: And the space program, you know, that I would say is the best -- that is government at its best, actually. And that limited expenditure for a high gain.

BUCHANAN: Galileo did not have a government contract.

ROGAN: But the jumps in the space age, inspired, obviously, through competition with the Soviet Union.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: You’re going to talk him into it.

BUCHANAN: Well, he got in trouble, too, John.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: The church apologized for it.

BUCHANAN: They just did.

ROGAN: One of the things that’s important, though, about this -- you know, we talk about faster than light travel as the prospective element --

MCLAUGHLIN: Foster?

ROGAN: Faster than light travel.

When we’re talking about the speed of light, right, the potential of exploration beyond the solar system, beyond the galaxy, it requires that you travel faster than light.

BUCHANAN: You’ve got to have -- you’ve got to go to warp speed as they say in these movies.

ROGAN: But NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory does some really interesting work. Go Google it. It’s fascinating, about, you know, wormhole theory, black holes. I mean, I can’t understand 90 percent of it, but it’s impressive enough that you can get some meat out of that and understanding.

And in a new century, when we have all this kind of ideas of globalization and challenge, this is a great area for America to inspire a new generation of students, to get involved. It makes math and science cool, in a unmitigated way, right? And that is --

MCLAUGHLIN: Wait a minute. You mean it’s an election tool?

ROGAN: No, it’s a tool to inspire people to do things that generate a good rewarding career path and benefit the nation.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Which of the 2016 candidate for the U.S. presidency will make a manned mission to Mars a reality?

John Kennedy was the last Democrat to strongly backed NASA. Today, who we got?

BUCHANAN: What are you talking about? Nixon was president in 1969 to ’74, when all of the men landed on the moon. Since Nixon has been president, nobody has been to the moon.

So, Johnson gets great credit for it. Kennedy certainly started it. But Nixon did a great job on it, John, and he deserves some credit, especially from you.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

MCLAUGHLIN: You’re writing a book --

CLIFT: Right.

BUCHANAN: Yes.

MCLAUGHLIN: An apologia, if it’s such the right word.

BUCHANAN: I know I’m writing a book on Nixon’s White House years, and I’m having trouble getting a happy ending to it all.

(LAUGHTER)

CLIFT: Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: -- plane together with Nixon when he wasn’t president yet.

BUCHANAN: Sure. I spent three years with him before he was president.

MCLAUGHLIN: You carried his bag.

BUCHANAN: No, not exactly. But, you know, Charlie was with him in 1959 and ’60, when ran against JFK.

MCLAUGHLIN: Exit: on a probability scale, from zero to 100, how likely does it now seem that there is life on Mars?

BUCHANAN: Life comparable to ours: zero.

CLIFT: Yes, maybe it existed once upon a time, but now, no.

ROGAN: No. I think it makes much, much more likely to the probability that it is likely, that there is life in the universe.

PAGE: I think it’s more likely that there was life on Mars. But there’s a lot of theories about at least one of the moons around the Jupiter, it has the conditions for heat and water --

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE: The heat comes from internally.

CLIFT: Yes. Mars doesn’t have a climate that’s conducive to humans.

MCLAUGHLIN: I’m declaring Clarence is correct.

Issue Two: Student Censors.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REPORTER: I’m media. Can I talk to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you need to get out. You need to get out.

REPORTER: No, I don’t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You need to get out.

REPORTER: I actually don’t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Hey, who wants to help me get this reporter out of here? I need some muscle over here.

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): A debate over free speech is underway on the nation’s campuses. That video shows a University of Missouri professor arguing with a reporter earlier this month. The professor and some students claimed the media were infringing on a student, quote/unquote, "safe space of contemplation".

And watch what happened at Yale, also this month, after a master challenged an administration email, warning students against offensive Halloween costumes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is not about creating an intellectual space! It is not! Do you understand that? It is about creating a home here! You are not doing that!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCLAUGHLIN: One commentator said about video we just saw that reminded him of the Maoist Red Guards’ technique of Sam Xing (ph), which is public haranguing of ideological enemy. Is that the new rage on campus?

BUCHANAN: Well, John, it’s not Red Guards. What the Red Guards did was beat these people up and brutalize them and kill ‘em and frankly getting into lynch them. Those are the Maoist --

MCLAUGHLIN: That sounds like a campus, doesn’t it?

BUCHANAN: That’s a great proletarian culture revolution. This sounds like a screaming 10-year-old, some pampered poodle on campus, spoiled brats really who really have not really suffered at all and they’re complaining and whining, somebody called them a name, somebody’s wearing a costume with a sombrero and then it insults ‘em.

It just really shows, if you take a look what happens here, 19, 20-year-olds, World War II guys going up on beaches and dying, fighting for the country, and you got these people who are privileged in a university campuses, whining and complaining. The problem, John, is the authorities on the university really don’t have any moxie. They’re just like guys in the 1960s who folded --

PAGE: Be careful, Pat, it’s something like Mr. Wilson, you know, have them get off your lawn. The fact is these -- I’m not unhappy to see fewer fraternity boys in black face on campus, or the Indian headdress, et cetera. Yes, it’s not killing anybody, but it is insulting to various folks and -- I mean, in my generation, we put up with it, because we had bigger fish to fry in the ‘60s. You’re absolutely right.

My son’s generation, they’re a lot less patient about this. So, I think that’s why you’re seeing this campus stuff rising. But they’re basically kids. They’re students. They make mistakes, like yelling at photographers and yelling at a reporter.

That was dumb. They’ve been undermining their own success of getting --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: Clarence, they’re 19, 20, 21, 22 years old.

PAGE: Yes.

BUCHANAN: This is the world. People are going to call you names in the world.

PAGE: That’s right.

BUCHANAN: All of us have been called lots of different names.

PAGE: I was called lots of names.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: You got to listen to names.

PAGE: I have bigger fish to fry than the names I was being called.

(LAUGHTER)

PAGE: We have a draft going on. We still had desegregation in a lot of parts in this country. I mean, a lot going on. We have bigger issues. This generation doesn’t have those issues, but they’ve got other issues that they --

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: Right. And the fact that the Paris attacks kind of drove all of these protests out of the news is a message also to some of these kids that, hey, there are bigger problems in the world.

But Clarence is right. There are some genuine offensive acts that have occurred on these campuses that the administrators have turned their eyes away from, and that’s worth pointing out. But --

BUCHANAN: Eleanor, don’t people have to stand up for their own rights? If somebody --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: -- used the N-word, why wouldn’t you just go up --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: -- and punch them right in the nose.

CLIFT: Not if they’re putting swastikas --

BUCHANAN: Not going to call the dean to help me out.

CLIFT: Not if they’re putting swastikas in there (INAUDIBLE) N-word --

BUCHANAN: Oh, for heaven’s sakes.

CLIFT: That has happened.

BUCHANAN: So what?

CLIFT: What do you mean so what?

BUCHANAN: The swastika?

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: That’s worth complaining about.

PAGE: You know, if you were being insulted, you wouldn’t tell people, I’m whining. No. You would say, "I’m being insulted."

BUCHANAN: I wouldn’t go to the dean --

PAGE: You go wherever you can find recourse. The fact is, if the dean wasn’t offering recourse, and the dean’s job is student affairs, and I think in terms student affairs, they’re not doing their job. And that was the core of the -- that’s why the football team walked out, Pat. And you know football teams don’t walk out on political protests very often.

BUCHANAN: You know what, John? The dean of that school should have said, you guys are going to play Saturday. And if you don’t play, we’re putting on the scrubs and you’re out of school and you’re losing your scholarship --

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE: But he didn’t and the coach backed them up.

CLIFT: Yes. Not when it’s a winning team --

BUCHANAN: The coach is gone.

CLIFT: -- and they’re making money for the university. They had the cards and they --

BUCHANAN: What you got to do is fill the team.

ROGAN: Millennial alert, let me get in here.

PAGE: Go for it.

ROGAN: All right. So, the problem we have I think is that the college campuses have put into the idea of chilling speech, right? You sent out these notices, that you used the authority of the student-led government, right, with all the professors, the deans, to impose some idea that you shouldn’t dress this way.

What that does is it forces this political issue into this area that is profoundly, I would say, un-American in terms of non-free speech.

The best way to deal with this is in the best form of American society going back, number one, students need to read a lot more sort of Greek philosophy, Thomas Paine, Jefferson, you know, American --

MCLAUGHLIN: Are they Greek?

ROGAN: -- instead of Gramsci and Edward Said. But at the same time --

BUCHANAN: Speaking of Paine, Teddy Roosevelt called him a filthy little atheist. And what do you think of that of an insult?

ROGAN: No, but you want -- OK, that’s the point, right? Have a debate.

CLIFT: All right.

ROGAN: But at the same time --

CLIFT: He probably wore it as a badge of honor. There are ways to do that -- not the kind of incidents that we’re talking about that were at the heart of these protests.

ROGAN: When my generation at college -- and I’m sure it’s a different experience, my friends who are black, you know, if someone came over in black face to them, I would say, I would use some profanity and no, but that’s --

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE: Nobody did that when I was in school.

ROGAN: No, and exactly and that is a tribute to the --

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE: Some of my white friends, of whom I have many, because blacks were a minority on that campus -- but, you know, you can depend on other people to stand up, but you need to fight for yourselves here.

MCLAUGHLIN: All right.

PAGE: And these kids are fighting for themselves right now, using the means that they have available to them.

CLIFT: He was a student photographer.

PAGE: Yes, he was.

CLIFT: And it is a balancing of rights. And the woman who was screaming about getting the muscle is a professor, and she later apologized. So, they worked it out.

(LAUGHTER)

PAGE: She did lose her job --

BUCHANAN: She lost her job in the journalism school, yes.

PAGE: But not the communications school. They were in separate schools.

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: Here’s the problem, surely with the journalist, it gets very problematic if we have this idea that there is an interpretation of where that journalist has to -- his perception of the story, or her perception of the story, should surely in public land define the pursuit of that story up to the individual.

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE: How about the (INAUDIBLE) at the White House? That’s what we’re talking about here. These people, they might have been unreasonable --

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Father Hesburgh of Notre Dame, what about him?

BUCHANAN: 1968, Father Hesburgh found a bunch of them demonstrating. He said, "I’m going to tell you, folks, you got 15 minutes to make up your mind and get out of here. And if you don’t, you will be suspended. And if you wait another 15 minutes, and you will all be expelled."

And that’s exactly --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: He’s a national hero for doing it.

PAGE: Ohio governor followed up a National Guard, and he opened -- the National Guard opened fire on the students. You got the right way and the wrong way to --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: Are you telling, expelling the guy, you’re comparing them to shooting people --

PAGE: Yes.

BUCHANAN: -- Kent State?

PAGE: Yes. I’m saying --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: You mean they’re similar?

PAGE: It may not be the proper way to deal with this.

BUCHANAN: You mean expelling them?

PAGE: Maybe it’s a university, you want to have dialogue and have people --

BUCHANAN: How do you have dialogue when these people tell everybody else to shut up?

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Hello, hello --

CLIFT: You’d only expel the football team that’s making your school money.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Hello? Beam me up, Scottie. Beam me up, Scottie! Hello, hello, hello!

Should knowledge of the U.S. Constitution, including the Bill of Rights, be a requisite for college admission? You know that it is in the Constitution.

ROGAN: No, because that’s --

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: This is about freedom of speech.

MCLAUGHLIN: Right.

CLIFT: But your freedom of speech ends when you, what, get to punch somebody else in nose? This is balancing --

MCLAUGHLIN: No, freedom of speech is guaranteed by the Constitution, the First Amendment.

ROGAN: Right.

PAGE: Yes, but that’s not the issue here.

CLIFT: Yes. It doesn’t guarantee yelling fire in a crowded theater.

MCLAUGHLIN: No, no, of course not.

CLIFT: OK?

MCLAUGHLIN: I’m not saying --

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: So, those are the arguments they’re having on campuses today.

BUCHANAN: John, if you were shouted down in a speech, who’s going to guarantee your right, First Amendment right? Who you’re going to go?

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: I think you can raise that with college administrators.

CLIFT: The college administrators.

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: Look, anybody who’s been on a campaign has been shouted down at some point --

MCLAUGHLIN: They have to prove, freedom of speech is not universal --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: You move off the campus and move on to another campus.

MCLAUGHLIN: Move to another campus? That’s the way you’re handling it?

BUCHANAN: In campaign? Often. I mean, look at Hubert Humphrey, were shouted down for one month to where he couldn’t speak by these little fascists.

PAGE: The issue here was a photographer’s right to take pictures.

ROGAN: Right.

PAGE: That’s what we’re talking about here. We’re not talking about, you know, big constitutional argument. The fact is, you work this kind of things out. Reporters -- and I’ve been to many places, where people will say, you reporters stand back or whatever, you know? It doesn’t necessarily mean your rights are being violated. It might just be a practical move.

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: Walking right out of the hall.

MCLAUGHLIN: If a student is getting financial aid, there ought to be a require --

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Can I get this in?

CLIFT: Using muscle went over the line.

MCLAUGHLIN: Hello?

PAGE: Yes?

MCLAUGHLIN: If you get a degree, a student has to know that the Constitution guarantees his freedom of speech, and where it occurs, where it occurs.

PAGE: I don’t think anybody was arguing the Constitution. And in fact, the woman admitted she was wrong.

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: What about that student talking about those safe spaces?

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: You should also be able to have an idea that a college in a philosophical sense is not a safe space, because it is the exchange of ideas.

CLIFT: Yes, but that’s been a trend on colleges. Some colleges take their role as in loco parentis pretty seriously.

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: And they think it’s OK to control safe spaces. There are a lot spaces in the United States, so fine.

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: John, colleges have rightly been called islands of totalitarianism in a sea of freedom.

PAGE: Well, and also, those who ridicule safe spaces are people who never needed one. That’s the difference.

ROGAN: No, but this is what I’m saying. That you make sure you support your buddy, or your girl, who’s getting this from some racist ass or whatever it is. But at the same time, you’re in -- you sit down with the nuts and say, this is why you’re crazy.

PAGE: Yes, that’s best case scenario. The worst case scenario is the individual does not get any support, and they’re being harassed constantly.

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: I would debate them.

MCLAUGHLIN: Issue Three: Star Trek.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: Risk is our business. That’s what the starship is all about. That’s why we aboard her.

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): "Star Trek" is the legendary creation of Gene Roddenberry that first aired on NBC in 1966. Under the helm of William Shatner and Leonard Nemoy in the respect roles of Captain Kirk and Science Officer Spock, "Star Trek" gained the claim of blotching, controversial social issues for public debate.

This month, following in the footsteps of five television "Star Trek" series and 12 motion pictures, CBS announced that it will release a new "Star Trek" series in 2017. So, to accommodate the brave new world of media magic, the new series will air online via CBS’s pay-per-view service, rather on straight television.

Regardless, it is a bold gambit by CBS executives. "Star Trek" has a loyal following. But its most recent TV incarnation, "Star Trek Enterprise", failed to generate a claim and was unceremoniously cancelled after five seasons.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCLAUGHLIN: Question: Will "Star Trek" find its way in 2017?

I ask you, Tom.

ROGAN: Yes, I think -- I think it will find its way. And I think it will for a couple of reasons. And so, if we think about all the different debates that are ongoing at the moment, from the social side, gay rights, abortion, scientific research to political issues abroad, the war on terror, ISIS, poverty, the role of government -- all of these things bind up with the idea of the original "Star Trek" in the 1960s, in a period of social flux.

And I think it makes it relevant and I think CBS, if they brand it correctly, they get the right actors, they make it exciting, they have good script writers, they can be very successful with this, because if you’ve seen with the recent movies, "Star Trek" has become popular again in that regard, at least.

MCLAUGHLIN: It’s not available --

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE: -- a big one, no. You know, but good scripts. I’m a Trekkie from way back, "Episode I". I’ve seen many incarnations and so is my son, who’s more expert than I am.

I mean, the franchise lives. But some of them are turkeys, because they aren’t well-written. And that’s something that we still have to wait and see, whether CBS puts a lot of money into this. Everything but the writers -- the writers always get paid last.

CLIFT: Well, "Star Trek" started in the ‘60s, but it’s created generation after generation of Trekkies and so, I think it’s going to do well again. And they were ahead of the curve, in terms of having an integrated spaceship crew, in terms of gender and race. And they are credited with, you know, pushing the boundaries on a number of the social, cultural issues, which is why Pat, I’m sure, never watched it.

BUCHANAN: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHANAN: William Shatner was voted, I think, by the Canadians, the most famous Canadian or greatest Canadian of all time.

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHANAN: For that achievement.

But, yes, we saw -- I saw the original ones, but some of the original ones. But I wasn’t caught in by the mid-, late-1960s, I wasn’t watching TV shows.

But I will think it would be good in a sense. First, CBS ain’t going at this thing unless they see some money in it. Secondly, it will show, I mean, you take the original "Star Trek" with Shatner and Dr. Spock, and the gal in there and who’s a lieutenant, and put them together --

PAGE: Lieutenant Uhura --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: But the cultural, social, moral issues and measure the originals with what’s common, and I think we’ll have a yard stick. Some people would say of decline, I’m sure others would say --

(CROSSTALK

CLIFT: It’s also going to be, you know, pay-per-view, isn’t it?

MCLAUGHLIN: Right.

CLIFT: It’s going to be in digital and all that. So, it’s not like it’s going -- you’re not going to go turning your TV on to watch it.

BUCHANAN: You only have to pay for it.

(CROSSTALK)

ROGAN: See, like, I’m a huge Trekkie. I’m like your son, I get probably, the viewers will find this very illuminating, but I could probably write an essay on the Romulan Star Empire’s politics of the 24th century. That might not be relevant.

PAGE: Yes.

ROGAN: But at the same time, what I would always like about "Star Trek" is that it is much as kind of sort of more liberal bent, on some of these issues, it came from a position of a military structure on a ship that was designed towards exploration, defense, but standing up for basic things, freedom of speech, et cetera.

And so, it allowed it to be a cross-section of American society and human society. And that was -- ans alien society.

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFT: That new race of the Vulcans with those pointy ears. I mean, there’s something to aspire to.

(LAUGHTER)

ROGAN: They didn’t have great sense of humor.

MCLAUGHLIN: Does it sad you --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: It doesn’t compare with "Star Wars" I don’t think.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Hello? Hello?

Does it sad you that low income households would no longer be able to watch "Star Trek" for free?

BUCHANAN: No.

MCLAUGHLIN: It doesn’t sadden you at all.

BUCHANAN: No, it doesn’t.

CLIFT: No, I --

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

CLIFT: -- think it probably should be accessible to more people but --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: If it makes money, it will be accessible.

ROGAN: Exactly. The market will sort it.

CLIFT: Yes.

MCLAUGHLIN: One virtue of broadcast television and rabbit antenna is that it was free. Anyone who owned a set could watch free entertainment and news without paying any additional fees, except for electricity.

CLIFT: But there were only three channels then.

(LAUGHTER)

MCLAUGHLIN: Prediction, Pat?

BUCHANAN: The terrorist attacks in Paris, John, are going to move politics in Europe and, quite frankly, in the United States, and already have, on immigrations and issues like that, very sharply to the right everywhere.

CLIFT: I would hope that on this Thanksgiving weekend, that people would reflect on how very lucky we are in this country to have really lived mostly without the scourge of terrorism and to open our hearts to the people from Syria who are fleeing from the very forces that we condemn.

And I think that the American people will not move as part of the right, as Pat Buchanan is suggesting. We didn’t just elect President Trump because of the Paris attacks.

ROGAN: I predict that 2016 will be one of the most challenging years in the history of the Fifth Republic France, in terms of social dialogue, the same things Pat is talking about. Marine Le Pen is very possibly moving towards a 2007 presidential victory, in terms of what’s happening.

PAGE: I think you can expect to see more colleges facing student protests. But unlike Pat’s remedies, most presidents now are going to act proactively to try to get dialogue going --

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: It’s still one or two, Clarence. I’ve been expelled. It’s not that bad.

MCLAUGHLIN: All right. Let’s settle down here and get realistic. This year’s Black Friday’s retail sales will fail to top last year’s $50 billion figure, continuing a three-year downtrend for Black Friday.

But retailers should not panic. Overall holiday sales will still be up this year.

Happy Thanksgiving weekend! Bye-bye!

END