The McLaughlin Group

Issues: Orlando and Politics / Trump and Cameron / Trump vs The Washington Post

John McLaughlin, Host
Pat Buchanan, Author and Columnist
Eleanor Clift, The Daily Beast
Clarence Page, The Chicago Tribune
Tom Rogan, National Review/Opportunity Lives

Taped: Friday, June 17, 2016
Broadcast: Weekend of June 17-19, 2016

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ANNOUNCER: From Washington, THE MCLAUGHLIN GROUP, the American original. For over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, HOST: Issue One: Orlando and Politics.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Clinton wants to allow radical Islamic terrorists to pour into our country. She’s in total denial. She supports so much of what is wrong.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And you shouldn’t be able to exploit loopholes and evade criminal background checks by buying online or at a gun show.

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): Forty-nine attendees were murdered last Sunday and 50 others wounded when Omar Mateen attacked a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida. Mr. Mateen claimed allegiance to the ISIS terrorist group and was shot dead by police. But the slaughter has now entered the presidential campaign.

Republican Donald Trump says President Obama has failed to even defined the terrorist as, quote/unquote, "radical Islam". And Mr. Trump is again calling for a ban on Muslim visitors to the United States.

In contrast, Hillary Clinton says tougher gun control is needed, including banning civilian ownership of assault rifles. Mrs. Clinton also wants more action to counter terrorist financing.


MCLAUGHLIN: Question: Who has the best policy? Pat?

PAT BUCHANAN, AUTHOR & COLUMNIST: It defends on whether you think the issue is an issue of gun control, or whether you think the issue is one of terrorism from ISIS, ISIS-inspired and ISIS-directed, which is coming to the United States.

I was surprised that Trump, late in the week got the support basically of John McCain, who said Barack Obama’s policy in Iraq is responsible for this. But more importantly, CIA Director Brennan said that ISIS, there are more people than you imagine out there. They’re coming here, they’re coming into Europe, they’re ISIS-sustained, they’re much worse than al Qaeda was, and basically, we can anticipate a lot more terrorism like this in the West and the United States.

And I will say, you know, Lord forbid that it happens, but if it does happen, I think that the United States, as Europe has, will suddenly start moving to the right, where we see all these right wing parties in Europe, and I think the beneficiary of more of these atrocities would be Trump.

ELEANOR CLIFT, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, so far, the polls don’t bear that out. His policies, such as they exist, call for a ban on Muslims coming into this country, when in fact Muslim troops are fighting against ISIS. Muslim Americans are in our armed forces. There is no nuance in Donald Trump’s policies.

I think Hillary Clinton has introduced a variety of things that we need to do. They are sort of extensions of what President Obama is already doing. And you have to do something about guns and the ready availability of guns. You have to address mental health.

And you have to understand that this shooter appears to be one of -- he’s a lone wolf. He’s radicalized over the Internet. He’s from Queens. He didn’t come pouring in here from a distant country.

And so, the fact -- another point that Brennan made was that the successes that the U.S. and other countries have been having fighting ISIS overseas has intensified their ability, or their goal to try to, threw propaganda to get people to self-radicalize in this country.

So, yes, that is -- it’s a continuing danger. It’s very hard to battle that with the kind of, you know, blunt force that Donald Trump is talking about.

TOM ROGAN, NATIONAL REVIEW/OPPORTUNITY LIVES: You know, as Pat says, the debate here is about guns and terrorism. I don’t think it is an issue about guns, and I think the proof of that is that you’re going to have these mass shootings. You’re going to have mass killings around the world.

What we should do is do what like Cornyn is proposing in Congress, is to have a 72-hour waiting period, the Department of Justice gets notified if someone on the watch list buys it, but then a judge on probable cause has to approve it. Feinstein has a different level that would destroy due process rights, which is interesting based on her CIA investigation, which slandered the CIA.

But the gun issue specifically, if you look at Chicago, where you see 45 percent of the population white, 32 percent black, the level of gun crime in the black community – suspect -- according to the Chicago Police Department, suspects in terms of shootings, 79 percent black and 1 percent white. So there’s a racial discrepancy.


ROGAN: Well, but there is a specific sociological issue going on in communities there. Republicans make note for too long in terms of poverty. But if you look back at ISIS, in terms of the black banner, what it is about is that where they can say to the world -- look t us, the world cannot defeat us. The United States cannot defeat us. That ordained power attracts these losers like this guy, and also attracts people there.

And the president’s policy -- unfortunately, the president is in space (ph) in terms of his policy and it is -- not so much by me or anyone else but the State Department when we see on Friday.

CLARENCE PAGE, CHICAGO TRIBUNE: What do you suggest? You want to put American troops in there and take out ISIS?

ROGAN: I would like to see more Special Operation Forces there, but I would like to see giving --

PAGE: That’s what Trump’s policy is, to send American troops in there, and he is going to fix ISIS immediately, instantly, he says. But he won’t give any detail.


PAGE: You got to elect me first.

ROGAN: I’m not --

PAGE: But the question was: whose policy is better?

CLIFT: Right.

PAGE: Picking between Hillary and Trump, my money is with Hillary.

ROGAN: It’s a dice roll against the --


PAGE: Fighting ISIS is a dice roll, but it’s a very serious issue that we have to deal with if we’re going to deal with this international terrorism.

MCLAUGHLIN: Question: Will President Obama respond to the criticism he got on the end of the memo signed by 51 U.S. diplomats urging strikes against Assad?


BUCHANAN: No, I hope he does not. I can’t think of a stupider thing to do than to launch a war to knock over Assad, after we’ve knocked over Saddam, knocked over the guy in the Afghanistan, knocked over the guy in Libya, opened up these garbage cans and all these crazy terrorists on earth. Do these State Department guys, have they thought through who is going to run -- who is going to run Damascus after they get rid of Assad? Get rid of Assad, you could be at war with the Russians again, because they’re backing him up.

CLIFT: It does reflect a great uneasiness, not just in the State Department, but in the general population, to anyone who watches what’s unfolding in Syria. I mean, clearly, you can’t say the U.S. policy is working. Now, I’m not --

PAGE: ISIS is on the run.

CLIFT: I’m not --

ROGAN: But they’re not. They’re increasing their support around the world.

PAGE: We’re pushing ISIS back.


CLIFT: I’ll make a prediction here. Whoever is president next cannot just continue what Obama is doing --

BUCHANAN: I disagree.

CLIFT: -- and it’s either intensifying in some way. And Hillary Clinton has ways to turn the dial up without getting completely involved.

BUCHANAN: ISIS is on the run. ISIS has got to be crushed in Syria, in Mosul, in Fallujah, and Raqqah, but when you do crush it, all of that anthill -- it is going to spread into Europe. But I think it’s a necessary but not sufficient condition.

You got to take down ISIS where it is. And agree with Obama on that.

MCLAUGHLIN: OK. Influencing the Donald.


REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Look, I’ve spoken to him about the Muslim ban and how I disagree with it. About the deportation, I don’t support that, as well. That’s not part of our agenda.

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): Speaking to CBS’s "Face the Nation" last weekend, Republican Speaker of the House of Representatives, Paul Ryan, brushed aside Donald Trump’s plan to deport 11 million illegal immigrants. That contradicts what Donald Trump has been telling his supporters at campaign rallies. He insists that his plans are not up for negotiation, regardless if continuing divergence between the most senior Republican in Congress and the man who would be the next Republican president is obvious. And it raises another question, namely, whether anyone can influence the Donald.

TRUMP: Don’t talk. Please be quiet. Just be quiet, to the leaders. Either stick together or let me just to do it by myself, I’ll do very well. I’m going to do very well, OK?


MCLAUGHLIN: Question: Who has the most influence with Donald Trump -- the 11 million voters who supported him in the primaries or GOP officeholders on Capitol Hill?

Try that out on --

CLIFT: Donald Trump has the most influence with Donald Trump. I mean, he has said, he has a good brain and that’s what he pays attention to. What you’re going to hear more and more on Capitol Hill is that Republicans are free to follow their own conscience as to whether they’re going to support Donald Trump or not, and those Republicans running in purple states, states that Barack Obama won, are going to be running as far away from Donald Trump as possible.

And he’s even brought President Bush out on the campaign trail, George W. Bush, trying to save the Republican senators. He was one of the most unpopular presidents when he left office, but he looks terrific, a statesman compared to Donald Trump.

BUCHANAN: But, you know, there are states like Mark Kirk in Illinois, your state of Illinois, who’s backed off, not going to support Trump. But, look, you pay a price if you say, look, I have nothing to do with him. There’s tremendous numbers of people, it’s 13 million Republicans out there voted for Trump, he’s supported by something like 80 percent of Republicans, you say, I’m not going to support the nominee, you pay a price for that, Eleanor.


PAGE: You make a good point there because you can’t run with Trump, you can’t run without him, if you’re a Republican right now. And the thing is that he is become -- well, the problem is he’s still running a primary campaign. He’s got no particular strategy for crossing over, even his fundraising right now is in states that he has no chance of winning. It’s New York, California, all this talk about him carrying those states, forget it.

MCLAUGHLIN: What should Paul Ryan do? Get off the bench and get in the game, supporting Donald Trump or continue he’s carping from the sideline?

ROGAN: He should be doing what he’s doing, which is try and guide Donald Trump in a way that preserves the Republican brand as something that can include support, but also recognizes that Donald Trump has won the plurality of Republican supporters. The big problem, though, if we talk about those congressional races, the growing concern there about the future of the party.

And also, if you look at Trump’s unfavorables coming up this week, which are really I think very noticeably skyrocketing in a downward direction. And that is a big problem for the party because again, it is a brand. But at the same time, with Trump, if you look at -- who can influence Trump? Well, the Trump that he looks -- that he sees in the mirror each morning, and potentially Newt Gingrich --

BUCHANAN: Trump is far stronger right now that Barry Goldwater ever was. Goldwater was 50 points behind right now. Secondly, Rockefeller took a walk on Goldwater. George Romney took a walk. Bill Scranton took a walk. And they were never heard from again, except Rockefeller, who got dumped from Ford’s ticket because of what he did to Goldwater.

CLIFT: Goldwater lost and that was a long time. So --


BUCHANAN: What I’m saying is you desert the nominee, and you may never be the nominee.

PAGE: Yes.

CLIFT: Yes, but it’s about self preservation, about people want to hold their Senate seat. It’s about Paul Ryan who’s trying to hold the House majority, which if Trump’s numbers continue to take a nosedive as they have, the House could also be in jeopardy. So, he’s trying to preserve that majority.

BUCHANAN: In other words, if the numbers go down, you cut and run, that is real political loyalty.


PAGE: There’s really nothing they can do. They can’t run with him, they can’t run without him. You know, like John McCain, he’s got to run with Trump to get reelected out there in Arizona, because the Republicans there are mostly --

ROGAN: But to Clarence’s point, very quickly, Trump only represents 33 percent as a conservative, whatever your conservatism, of what is at stake in this election, the Supreme Court and the legislature, as the other two branches of government are on the line as well.

BUCHANAN: Yes, but if you don’t get Trump, you don’t get the Supreme Court, unless you’re betting on Hillary.


ROGAN: Right. But if you look at what is going to happen into the party if Trump continues on this train, that is why we saw with -- who is Trump going to pick as his running mate? I actually now hope it’s Gingrich, because Gingrich is the only person who Trump will listen criticism from.

BUCHANAN: Well, you know, I think --


CLIFT: Anybody who lived in Washington for the last couple of election cycles and remembers what Newt Gingrich has been associated with, you know, he’s a smart guy. There used to be in his office, there were two boxes. One big box says "Newt’s ideas". The much smaller box said, "Newt’s good ideas."


BUCHANAN: But, you know, I agree with Tom. I think Trump could be -- find out where you are when you get to that convention, if you’re 15 points behind. That’s why I agreed with Mondale when he took Gerry Ferraro. You roll the dice -- it didn’t work, but you may have to roll the dice.

CLIFT: Is Gingrich rolling the dice? You think the country is going to --



CLIFT: -- going to rise and applaud Newt Gingrich back on the scene?

MCLAUGHLIN: On a self-inflicted political scale, zero to ten, zero meaning no damage whatsoever, ten meaning political suicide -- how much damage is Ryan doing to himself?

BUCHANAN: He’s hurt himself with the establishment and he’s hurt himself basically with the Trump folks. I would say it’s four or five. You know, I don’t know that he’s got a great future.

CLIFT: Yes, no more golden boy. I would say 6.5.

ROGAN: It’s five. If Trump losses, Ryan retains his influence for the rebranding. If Trump wins, Ryan has a big problem.

PAGE: You’re all reading my mind, five. I think Ryan -- people understand his situation right now. Put it that way.

MCLAUGHLIN: The answer is nine.

PAGE: Uh-huh.

MCLAUGHLIN: But only if Trump wins. If Trump losses, zero.

CLIFT: Exactly.

MCLAUGHLIN: Issue Two: Donald Versus David.


TRUMP: It looks like we’re not going to have a very good relationship. Who knows? I hope to have a good relationship with him. But it sounds like he’s not willing to address the problem either.

Doesn’t know what I’m all about. I think they’re very rude statements, and frankly, tell him I will remember those statements.

MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): Donald Trump slammed Prime Minister David Cameron and mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, in an interview with British television last month. But Mr. Cameron and Mr. Khan are open critics of Mr. Trump’s proposal to ban Muslims from visiting the United States.

But responding to Mr. Trump’s interview, Prime Minister Cameron refused to back away from his criticism, The Donald’s plans, says Cameron, is, quote, "divisive and stupid", unquote.


MCLAUGHLIN: Question: Would a Trump victory spell the end of a special relationship between England and America? Pat Buchanan?

BUCHANAN: No, it would not, John. Look, the relationship is not a good one, but because of the whole Brexit thing coming up, it may be doubtful that Cameron is even prime minister of Great Britain on the day after Brexit. But I think the relationship between the United States and Great Britain, not because of the 19th century when it was very, very bad, but because of the 20th century where we fought side by side in those two wars, there’s no closer ally of the United States than Great Britain.

And Bismarck was right in the 19th century when he said the greatest fact in the 20th century will be the fact that the Americans speak English.


CLIFT: Yes, I agree with the special relationship holds, but Mr. Cameron has a lot more on the line than his relationship with Donald Trump, because he’s going all out for the U.K. to remain in the European Union. And right now, the polls show it’s kind of touch and go.

And the murder of one of the members of parliament, Jo Cox, a very beloved -- I think she was a socialist. She was a very caring person -- by somebody who was a sympathizer of the Nazi, neo-Nazi movement in this country, has really shaked the country to its core, because that kind of gun violence is not seen in the U.K.

I mean, we are unique in this country to almost have this kind of gun violence become normal. But after a 1996 slaughter in a school in the U.K., they really cracked down on gun laws.


MCLAUGHLIN: The U.S./U.K. relationship hit a new low when Downing Street rejected Obama’s appeal not to join China’s Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank?

ROGAN: Yes, it did. That was a very big point of contention behind the scenes. It improves slightly when David Cameron agreed to spend 2 percent of GDP on defense, which the president -- actually, we discussed this on the show.

But Jo Cox is a great tragedy there, universally respected. They had a memorial today. They suspended campaigning over Brexit.

But, look, David Cameron and -- I think Pat and Eleanor and Clarence called it, and I was wrong. But the polls have shifted and it seems that -- the issue in the U.K. is that the people who want to leave European Union now have about a three or four percentage point lead coming up to the vote next week.

And that means in the condition of most of the voters who want to leave being older more likely to vote, that if they do leave, David Cameron will probably be replaced by Boris Johnson, very quick order, who is a more intelligent version of Donald Trump -- a nicer version, but slightly eccentric.

PAGE: That’s such a high bar, more intelligent than Donald Trump.

ROGAN: But he was an Oxford Classics graduate, so maybe he is slightly better than that.

PAGE: Indeed.

I think the thing about a special relationship is it is durable, but Trump seems to be committed to doing anything he can to damage it, actually Because when you look at Cameron’s situation right now, touchy as it is, and they got their own immigration issues over there and their own issues in regard to Brexit, Trump just kind of makes it worse and saying, "I’m going to remember this," like he’s throwing down a glove of challenge to -- imagine this guy as president.


BUCHANAN: But, look, Trump -- what might be called Trumpism has been rising in Great Britain. It is rising in France. It is rising in Central Europe.

It is this desire of people to take back to their own countries their destiny and their sovereignty. And at the same time --

PAGE: So, is Donald Trump making it better or worse, though.

BUCHANAN: But no, what I’m saying is, I know -- you can knock him as much as you want, but this is a real force that people ought to take a look at it. It is not simply – I mean, he’s got one man, he’s got a lot of things going for him, Trump name and everything. But this is a tremendous force in Europe and, frankly, all over the world now

CLIFT: It’s right wing populism basically and it tends to emerge when there are economic hard times, where you try to find scapegoats and that’s what Trump has done, and that’s what other right wing parties are doing as well.


PAGE: -- about the energy being on the side of the exit, but I’ll be interested to see in this election what the impact of that assassination will have, because that’s a big shock for England to have a member of parliament killed on the streets like that. And maybe there will be a backlash there in favor of the common market -- we’ll see.

MCLAUGHLIN: Pretty horrible.

PAGE: Very much so.

MCLAUGHLIN: Is Cameron’s real target, Trump’s proposed tariffs on China?

ROGAN: Cameron is trying to appease members of the British parliamentary parties across the board that really don’t like Trump, and he didn’t think Trump had a chance. The political office at the embassy here probably getting in some trouble over that. We’re lucky that we’re pundits, but --

BUCHANAN: Trump flashed support for Brexit. That wasn’t helpful.


PAGE: Yes.

ROGAN: But Cameron is worrying. They regret it, they regret it.

CLIFT: Trump’s probably favorite world leader is Vladimir Putin. It’s not David Cameron.


PAGE: This week anyway.


ROGAN: They are across the world, apart from Mr. Putin, there are fingers crossed that Hillary Clinton will be -- for right or wrong.

PAGE: Well, Putin knows how to play Trump. He goes and complements Trump in public, which placates Trump right away, and at the same time, spies on Trump’s file at the DNC.

CLIFT: Right.

MCLAUGHLIN: Exit question: Will Trump and Cameron meet and patch things up on this trip? Yes or no? Pat?

BUCHANAN: I don’t know that they will meet, because it’s the day after Brexit. I don’t know what -- that Cameron is going to go up to Scottish golf course to meet The Donald.


CLIFT: Yes, I don’t think a meeting is necessarily in the cards at all. And if Trump’s polls continue to look as weak as they are, if David Cameron is still prime minister, he may think it’s wasted time to meet with him.

ROGAN: Yes, I think because of Trump’s unpopularity and because of how close the vote is going to be anyway, I think now, Cameron will avoid that meeting.

PAGE: I agree, although Cameron maybe ought to start enjoying the golf whenever he gets a chance, the way things are going.


MCLAUGHLIN: Superficially, yes, they’re both pragmatists. But serious differences in national interests on trade with China remain.

Issue Three: Trump Versus "The Washington Post".



MCLAUGHLIN (voice-over): Calling "The Washington Post", quote, "dishonest and phony," unquote, Donald Trump this week suspended the newspaper’s access to his campaign event.

"The Washington Post" executive editor Martin Baron is not happy. The man, Baron says, is, quote, "nothing less than repudiation of a role of a free and independent press," unquote. Mr. Baron pledged his reporters would continue covering Mr. Trump.

Still, this isn’t the first time Mr. Trump has banned media from his events. The Trump campaign has, thus far, restricted credentials to Gawker, BuzzFeed, "Foreign Policy", "Politico", Univision, "Mother Jones", "The Daily Beast", "The Huffington Post", and others.

And while Mr. Trump insists the reporting media is biased against him, disquiet is growing against his media policy. In part that’s because Mr. Trump has also called for a change to libel laws and regularly threatens lawsuits against media outlets that published articles with which he disagreed.


MCLAUGHLIN: Question: Is "The Washington Post" biased against Mr. Trump? Eleanor?

CLIFT: No, it’s called good journalism, and Marty Baron, who’s the editor of "The Washington Post" was at "The Boston Globe" when "The Boston Globe" did pioneering work about the Catholic Church and the pedophilia that was rampant in the church that resulted in the movie "Spotlight" that won the Oscar. So, this is a newspaper that also has the history of Watergate and that pioneering coverage as well.

I think Donald Trump is getting uncomfortable with the kind of scrutiny he’s getting, which somebody who’s competing to be president is going to be a subject to. He’s been treated mainly as sort of circus act, entertainment, up until now. Now, he’s getting serious coverage.

Frankly, to be ban from his rallies, you can watch him on TV. So, that’s not going to stop the coverage that he’s going to get, and it should get tougher. It will.

BUCHANAN: "The Washington Post" has the deepest animus against Donald Trump of any newspaper in any election I have ever seen. It’s not only the neo conservative columnists, some of the conservative columnists are attacking him, savaging him. The editorial page says Republicans have a moral obligation to disown. Bob Woodward goes out and said, we got 20 guys investigating Trump. Why?

The point of -- even the front page, you read stories that just attack Trump on the news story. I don’t even wait for the editorial page. It is a tremendously hostile newspaper to Trump, and everybody at "The Washington Post" would have a collective heart attack if he won the presidency of the United States.

But I do raise the question --

PAGE: They wouldn’t be alone either.

BUCHANAN: But I have to say, I do raise the question why -- I don’t think -- if I were Trump, I would ignore it. There’s nothing you can do about some of these guys, and it’s a distraction. Keep moving on toward the prize.

PAGE: You know, Donald Trump loves publicity, hates scrutiny, as simple -- simply that. No matter what, either "Washington Post" or anybody else, and he can dish it out but he can’t take it. The fact is, he’s so offended over this headline that he won’t let the reporters come in --


BUCHANAN: The headline said he was involved in a murder.

PAGE: The headline was already changed before and he even made his complaint. He said I was very -- it was a minor thing for him to be making such a big deal about it, except to appeal to his base. That’s why I say, once again, he’s still campaigning to his base and throwing them red meat about, oh, the media is out to get us, while in the meantime, he’s not reaching out to the swing voters.

ROGAN: Here’s the thing -- Trump has this -- I think it is sociopathic, the way he freaks out about criticism and attention. Is there a media bias against him? Absolutely, and there are too many newspapers, unfortunately, that run reporter articles from otherwise good reporters which have --


PAGE: Please continue.

ROGAN: Not "The Tribune" -- that have an editorial line imbued at them. Look at Hillary Clinton, you know, the criticism. Has she got negative media coverage? Yes. But the amount of lying she’s been doing, she should have got more.

Donald Trump, though, as this continues, it’s only going to get worse. He needs to get over it because it ain’t going to change.

PAGE: That’s right.

ROGAN: More concerning to me about Trump is when he threatens libel suits. There’s a tradition that is very kind of European, anti-the First Amendment --

BUCHANAN: Come on, you got "The New York Times" vs Sullivan --

ROGAN: I know.

BUCHANAN: -- which I was involved, and my brother is involved.

ROGAN: But he’s got no chance, that’s the point.

BUCHANAN: Well, exactly. It’s a Supreme Court --

ROGAN: What he’s doing. But why say it?

BUCHANAN: It’s a Supreme Court decision that set it down, you can’t change that --

ROGAN: Right. Why is he saying it?

BUCHANAN: -- with the legislation.

CLIFT: It’s feeding his base. I mean, they love to take this out on the media.

Going back to George Wallace rallies when George Wallace used to single out the media and the crowd loved it.

PAGE: It worked for him.

CLIFT: Spiro Agnew, I mean, there are some --


BUCHANAN: As Wallace said, (INAUDIBLE), when this rally is over, we’re going on a distortin’ trip.


PAGE: Remember the ’64 Republican convention, the pointing at the press gallery and saying, that’s them, boo. And Trump does the same thing now.

BUCHANAN: Eisenhower said, sensation seeking columnists and commentators, just a line that was written in there, the whole place exploded.

MCLAUGHLIN: Forced prediction: give it to me, Pat.

BUCHANAN: The House of Representatives will confirm what the Senate did in putting women subject to the draft -- the answer is no.

CLIFT: Subject to registering for the draft, Congress will not bring back the draft.

ROGAN: No, I don’t think they would. It’s stupid idea. If we ever need to draft women -- and they play critical roles. But if we have to draft women, we have got a big problem with millions of casualties.

PAGE: I agree. Sentiments were so high against the draft right now at all levels that I doubt if this measure will pass in order -- women included in the draft. It’s not happening.

MCLAUGHLIN: The answer is yes. In the next big war, women will be drafted.

Enjoy your weekend. Bye-bye!