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THE MCLAUGHLIN GROUP HOST: JOHN MCLAUGHLIN PANEL: PATRICK BUCHANAN, MSNBC; ELEANOR CLIFT, NEWSWEEK; TONY BLANKLEY, THE WASHINGTON TIMES; KIM MANCE, COUNCIL OF WOMEN WORLD LEADERS TAPED: FRIDAY, JULY 6, 2007 BROADCAST: WEEKEND OF JULY 7-8, 2007

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MR. MCLAUGHLIN: The Fourth of July is a salute to the Declaration of Independence. Fifty-eight Americans put their signatures on that document. All 58 were men. Not a single one of those 58 was a woman.

Well, that was then. This is now. Now is different. Look at how far women have come.

Issue One: Marble Ceiling Begone.

HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): (From videotape.) It is a moment for which we have waited over 200 years. For our daughters and our granddaughters, today we have broken the marble ceiling. For our daughters and our granddaughters now, the sky is the limit. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Seventy women serve in the House of Representatives. Sixteen serve in the Senate. Altogether, 86 women serve in the U.S. Congress today. Of those 70 females in the House, 49 are Democrats, 21 are Republicans. Of the 16 females in the Senate, 11 are Democrats, five are Republicans.

Worldwide, there are 35 women like the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. As with Pelosi, these women preside over one chamber of a national legislature. In addition to leadership, the total number of women in national legislatures is rising. Scandinavia -- Norway, Sweden and Denmark -- leads. Forty-two percent of legislative seats in the Nordic countries are held by women.

North and South America lag. Combined, women hold 20 percent of legislative seats there. Europe lags too. Women hold 20 percent of legislative seats there. Africa lags more. Seventeen percent of legislators in Africa are women. Asia and the Pacific and the Arab states finish last -- 16 percent, 12 percent and 9 percent respectively, and rounded.

Now, if the number of women in legislatures worldwide grows at its current pace, women will dominate most legislative bodies by 2050.

Question: Almost half of the seats of the three Scandinavian countries are held by women, and that's double the nearest competitor. Why is that? Pat Buchanan.

MR. BUCHANAN: First, John, these are Protestant countries. They're older countries. They're socialist countries. They're egalitarian countries. They have moved further away from the great institution of hierarchy and patriarchy, the traditional family, where the father is the head of the family. There's been an egalitarianism with regard to sex in the Scandinavian countries since World War II and before --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You call equality between men and women egalitarianism and then you put it down?

MR. BUCHANAN: I'm saying egalitarianism is an idea that all are the same; all are equal. It's much more advanced in the West than it is, for example, in Asia, and especially in Islamic countries. And where it is most advanced, you will have the largest number of women in the legislature in other positions, egalitarian positions.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You mentioned socialism too -- or he did. I'll turn to you now, Eleanor. Socialism also helps out the Nordic countries because of subsidized day care, and also the university admissions program is probably better administered than ours in this country. Is that true?

MS. CLIFT: Right. It's easier for women to participate more fully in public life. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Merit-based.

MS. CLIFT: Yeah. And there are also laws in these countries where they impose quotas, which would -- that would never fly in the United States.

Look, the participation of women in a democratic society, actually in any society, has a leavening influence. And when you look at the Arab countries where women are really persecuted, I would welcome the addition of more women in these societies to bring them closer to what our concept of a democratic society is.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, is that true in the case of Arabs? Is that the real reason, or is it because their economy is so bad?

MR. BLANKLEY: Well --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: There is a correlation between economic standing and the issue of women being --

MR. BLANKLEY: To some extent. But, in fact, obviously, the teachings of Islam do not put a woman on par with women. Woman is, in many ways, the possession of men. And as a result, there's a huge cultural bias driven from their religious experience to drive it.

But let me just go back a little bit to the role of effective women, because to the extent that a country admits women in equally, as the West by and large does, I think their presence doesn't make much difference, other than for them, because we're already -- you know, women who get in are as good or as bad as men who get in.

Women who advance are usually more aggressive, like men who advance are usually more aggressive. More aggressive people get into politics, get into power positions. And so I don't know that it makes that much difference. The claim that once women got into government it'd be less corrupt, it would be more gentle, well, think of Indira Gandhi or Maggie Thatcher or Elizabeth I. Any time a person gets into a power position, they are by nature power-grabbing people, man or woman.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Gandhi and -- she was in power because of the dynasty, and that's also true in Pakistan.

MR. BLANKLEY: And Maggie Thatcher?

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, Maggie Thatcher is different, of course.

MS. CLIFT: The parliamentary system.

MR. BLANKLEY: Golda Meir. The point is that you don't get --

MS. CLIFT: I want to hear her take on Tony Blankley's statements, because you're way off the mark. (Laughs.) MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Kim Mance, what are your thoughts on this?

MS. MANCE: Actually, I mean, you're speaking about some countries that the women weren't necessarily democratically elected as a head. But what we find in a lot of research is that women generally in key leadership positions tend to be more nurturing and more mentoring, more inclusive in general. I mean, there's no archetype, as you mentioned.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, you take --

MR. BLANKLEY: These are really stereotypes.

MS. CLIFT: Women have a different style of leadership. But, look, if we had 86 women in the U.S. Senate instead of just 16, I think we would have a health care system in this country that makes sense. We'd pay teachers and nurses more.

MR. BLANKLEY: This is --

MS. CLIFT: Women do have different priorities.

And I think you can go down the list of legislation where women have made a difference for the American government.

MR. BUCHANAN: I agree with Eleanor, John. I agree with Eleanor. Women are much more, I think, if you will, to the socialist, to the left, to the idea of community and everybody contributing. And I agree with you; if you had 86 United States senators, you would have a very much more socialist country.

MR. BLANKLEY: When I was working --

MS. CLIFT: But they also go to war because his point about that is right.

MR. BLANKLEY: When I was working for Newt in Congress, we worked with Republican and Democratic women and men. And the women were no more nurturing in meetings than men were. They were as aggressive and vicious as the men were. This idea --

MS. CLIFT: In advance of policies that might be more nurturing.

MR. BLANKLEY: And if they were in favor of health care, universal health care, it's because they were liberals, not because they were women.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I think they're consensus-builders. You take the case that Angela Merkel, one of the G-8 -- she pulled that meeting together. She was able to resolve differences between the Europeans and others there on the basis of global warming; the United States, notably. And Putin was arguing. He was very edgy with Bush. And she was able to smooth that over, and the G-8 was a success.

Exit question: When, if ever, will women hold a majority of the seats in the United States Congress? Pat Buchanan.

MR. BUCHANAN: Not in my lifetime, thankfully.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, when would you project?

MR. BUCHANAN: In the United States Congress? Fifty years.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Right now they hold about -- MR. BUCHANAN: One-fifth.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: -- about 18 percent.

MR. BUCHANAN: Eighteen percent. About 20 percent, if there are 80-some, yeah.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Eighteen percent in the House and the Senate out of 535.

MS. CLIFT: At the rate they're going, it's going to take -- I think one mathematical model says 200 years. I mean, it's been a very slow growth. And if you look at governors, eight female governors out of 50, those are the chief executive spots. That's even harder for women to break into. So this is not a rapid takeover. Fear not, gentlemen.

MR. BLANKLEY: I'm not afraid. I've worked for, with women in politics. It doesn't make any difference, depending on whether --

MS. CLIFT: It does make a difference.

MR. BLANKLEY: -- they're good or bad on policy.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Did they hold you in high regard?

MR. BLANKLEY: You'd have to ask them. But, look, as far as women becoming a majority, I think more able women select out in their 30s and 40s than able men select out. So I think it's going to be a long time before they're a majority, because they're a little bit more than half the population but a higher percentage select out for family reasons.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Kim, have you done any projections in your famed legendary institute on this issue of whether the United States Congress is going to be dominantly female?

MS. MANCE: We haven't done specific research on that, no. But I would say as soon as maybe men kind of step up with a little more courage to be inclusive of their female counterparts as equals in legislative --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You think men are holding women back?

MR. BUCHANAN: John --

MS. MANCE: I think that if they showed more support, because, you know, women need more --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: We have a notoriously conservative country in the United States. MR. BUCHANAN: John, when I was in the White House --

MS. CLIFT: In the great scheme of things, women, relatively recently, have gotten into the professions. And now they have so many opportunities -- you know, law, medicine. And politics, you know, you have to put your family on display. There are -- Tony is right. A lot of women don't --

MR. BUCHANAN: In the Nixon White House, there was not a single woman I can think of right now who was at the senior staff level. When I went into the White House when Eleanor was covering me, of the special assistants I named under me -- and there were 12 of them -- seven of them were women. They really moved up.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What's your point?

MR. BUCHANAN: My point is they were fourth level and third level in Reagan's White House, and they're gradually moving up. But I think overall that Eleanor's point is true to this extent, that when they do get -- they do tend to believe, I think, more than men do, in the idea of community action and government and liberalism, by and large. There are some brilliant conservative women. But if you take the majority of them, I think they tend to move politics to the left.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Pat, they know how to do deals. They know how to get coalitions together.

MR. BUCHANAN: But look at the places where women are dominant. You've mentioned Scandinavia. They tend to be countries of the left, where more and more --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you think we have a problem with the basic culture? We were decades behind Europe in the abolition of slavery. We have not changed our views on capital punishment. We have no socialized medicine in this country.

MR. BUCHANAN: Let me tell you something.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Is this part of the problem? We are very conservative.

MR. BUCHANAN: The rise of women to power in a civilization is very often the mark of its decline.

MS. CLIFT: Oh, just the opposite. Just the opposite. The rise of women -- would you apply that to the Muslim societies?

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Or Rome?

MS. CLIFT: That's bizarre.

MR. BUCHANAN: (Laughs.) MR. MCLAUGHLIN: The answer to my question is the year 2050 will be when women will dominate.

Issue Two: The Global Dozen.

Angela Merkel is one of 12 women leaders currently holding office as heads of state. The nations now governed by women are these: Germany, Liberia, Chile, Switzerland, Latvia, Finland, Ireland, Mozambique, New Zealand, Jamaica, Philippines, Netherlands. That's Netherlands Antilles, by the way, the Caribbean nation.

Question: What is striking about this list? Tony Blankley.

MR. BLANKLEY: I didn't see anything striking about it.

MR. BUCHANAN: I will tell you what's striking. Something like about eight of them are from western countries. Even Jamaica, of course, is British-oriented. They're from western countries. And as I've said, John, the West has moved much farther, if you will, up the ladder toward egalitarianism and social equality and the decline of marriage and things like that, which lead women to move into the same occupations as men.

MS. CLIFT: I can't believe anyone who can talk about egalitarianism and make it sound like a bad thing.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: (Laughs.)

MS. CLIFT: I mean, you talk about women are contributing to the decline of society.

MR. BUCHANAN: I'm saying it's a mark of the decline of a civilization.

MS. CLIFT: A mark of a decline. That's only because the men have done such an awful job and are turning over the really tough problems, like overheating planet, to women. That's the only way I would back up your theory at all.

MR. BUCHANAN: The men didn't do badly in World War II.

MS. CLIFT: But the women on that list, there were a couple who have won in winner-take-all elections like we have. They didn't come up through a parliamentary system. They didn't inherit it through their family. And you have Michelle Bachelet in Chile, who she was imprisoned under the Pinochet regime.

MR. BLANKLEY: So where do you see the pattern? I'm just curious. I don't see any pattern there.

MS. CLIFT: The pattern is women are beginning to win like men are --

MR. BLANKLEY: No, he was saying --

MS. CLIFT: -- and on the same terms as men are.

MR. BLANKLEY: But, no, the question of the nations.

MS. CLIFT: And Michelle Bachelet has been elected in a machismo --

MR. BLANKLEY: Oh, I agree with that. I agree with that.

MS. CLIFT: Let me finish -- in a machismo, Pinochismo society. And she's holding her own.

MR. BLANKLEY: That's not the question. He asked -- and I didn't know the answer; I still don't know -- is there a pattern --

MS. CLIFT: The question was, what struck you? MR. BLANKLEY: Is there a pattern about the kind of countries where that's happening? And I don't see a pattern amongst those countries.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Is there a pattern, Kim?

MR. BUCHANAN: Mostly western.

MR. BLANKLEY: Well, obviously they're not Arab countries.

MS. MANCE: I don't think that there's necessarily a pattern.

MR. BLANKLEY: Aha!

MS. MANCE: As she said, women are winning more like men are.

MS. CLIFT: Right.

MR. BLANKLEY: That's what I'm saying.

MS. CLIFT: I call it a pattern. (Laughs.)

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Six of those leaders are from Europe.

MR. BUCHANAN: Well, that's half of them.

MR. BLANKLEY: And six aren't.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: If you count New Zealand in there --

MR. BLANKLEY: Which is not actually --

MR. BUCHANAN: Well, that's what I mean. New Zealand is a western country.

MR. BLANKLEY: -- Europe.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Or if you can possibly squeeze Chile in, then you (come up to ?) eight.

MR. BUCHANAN: Well, yeah, that's very much European-based at its upper level.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What does the trend tell you?

MR. BUCHANAN: The trend tells me that you're going to see much more advances of women into power in societies like the United States and Western European countries before you are the 22 Arab countries or 55 Muslim countries.

MS. CLIFT: What you're seeing is younger people do not make the great gender distinctions that older generations make. And I think, just as in our country, people are getting more tolerant of differences in gender and race. And I think you're seeing that play out in other places.

MS. MANCE: Exactly. In places like Iceland and Ireland, where they've had long tenures of women heads of state, you know, kids are growing up in school thinking maybe only women can be president.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Is there a correlation, Kim, between social and economic revolution and the abandonment of traditional gender roles that we've seen in our society and elsewhere?

MS. MANCE: Some of these that aren't necessarily heads of state. But a good case of that would be Liberia, where she won, you know, 80 percent of the popular vote. And her campaign slogan, by the way, was "All the men of Liberia have failed us. Let's try a woman." So things like that happen. But then, of course, in Rwanda they have the actual highest level of gender parity in their legislative government, so that was obviously after a revolution.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Can I return to that question of the extent to which this nation is very masculine? For example, the U.S. Constitution. Let me read to you a little bit of the Constitution. "The executive power shall be vested in a president. He shall hold his office during the term of four years. The president shall receive a compensation for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive any other emolument."

MR. BLANKLEY: But --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: "Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oaths," et cetera.

MR. BLANKLEY: But John --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: He, he, he.

MR. BLANKLEY: -- until 30 years ago, the male was considered inclusive of the female and it was simply a style of construction. It didn't reflect -- and you used that phrase in literature throughout the --

MR. BUCHANAN: John, it's not only that. The men of property were the ones who created the Constitution.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, which was it, men of property, or was it a literary technique?

MR. BUCHANAN: White men of property and Protestants, John. One Catholic signed the Declaration of Independence, three the Constitution. That was it. It was a Protestant --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Pat, they were anti-feminine bigots. (Laughter.) You know that. MR. BUCHANAN: They created a better country than this crowd --

MS. CLIFT: There have --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Than with women?

MR. BUCHANAN: Pardon?

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Than with women?

MR. BUCHANAN: Well, I mean --

MS. CLIFT: There have been presumptions about male power that we're still challenging. It's a long trail of legalities that have allowed women to open up a bank account and own property.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Abigail Adams told her husband to see to it that the Constitution provided equal footing for women. He didn't do it.

MS. CLIFT: Right, and he ignored her. He ignored her. (Laughs.)

MS. MANCE: He scoffed at her, actually.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What was that?

MS. CLIFT: He scoffed at her.

MS. MANCE: He scoffed at her letter. She wrote that famous letter, "Remember the ladies."

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Just like Buchanan scoffs at this idea.

MS. MANCE: Exactly. He was taking the same position --

MS. CLIFT: But we're still challenging --

MR. BLANKLEY: John, you're being grossly anachronistic on this. To judge men of the 18th century --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You mean, those saints?

MR. BLANKLEY: Yes, those saints. To judge men in the 18th century by concepts of feminism that didn't emerge until the beginning of the 20th century --

MS. CLIFT: Actually, John is judging modern men by those same standards.

MR. BLANKLEY: Well, that's another matter.

MS. CLIFT: And I applaud him.

MR. BLANKLEY: That's a different issue entirely than measuring Washington or Madison or Jefferson on this.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Let's have the exit question. In terms of America's social evolution, is Hillary's presidential bid well-timed or ill-timed? Pat Buchanan.

MR. BUCHANAN: I think it's very -- I mean, it's very well-timed. I think there's no doubt about it that the American nation is much more receptive to an idea of a woman as president than it has ever been. Maybe it'll be a better time further down the road, but it's the best time up to date. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, what fights it, Pat, is that we have become quite militarized. And militarization is not something that can easily fit into --

MR. BUCHANAN: John, we had 12 million people under arms in 1945. We've got about 12 percent of that now.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor.

MS. CLIFT: Yeah, we have a war that nobody likes, and we have women voting in greater numbers than men. Hillary's campaign is well- timed. But, you know, pollsters are still asking, "Are we ready for a woman president?" So there are still a lot of presumptions, evident on this set, playing out in society.

MR. BUCHANAN: (Laughs.)

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: He's hierarchical.

(Cross-talk.)

MS. CLIFT: God bless Shelley, his wife.

MR. BLANKLEY: On the Hillary question, I think the current polling shows that she's gaining more female votes than she's losing male votes, all other things equal. I don't think it's going to hurt her, the demographic of being female. Unlike being black or Hispanic or Jewish, I think that still probably hurts a candidate. It's not necessarily debarring. But I don't think that the woman necessarily hurts anymore.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Quickly.

MS. MANCE: I think she's running because she can. Our society has changed enough now that she's a legitimate, formidable candidate, and she's running because she can.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Issue Three: The "Y" Factor.

In America, men, as a percent of the population, account for less than 50 percent. But men are responsible for 85 percent of crimes. When it comes to road rage, dangerous risk-taking, alcoholism, aggression generally, the assorted social and individual ills that shorten the life span, men are notoriously trouble-prone. How come? The "Y" factor, say geneticists.

The "Y" factor is the extra chromosome that differentiates a male from a female. British genetics professor and science author Steve Jones goes so far as to argue that social evolution has now made men not only undesirable, but unnecessary. "Advances in reproductive technology, like cloning, make it possible to perpetuate the human race with no men. This would eliminate, of course, the antisocial behavior embedded in the 'Y' chromosome."

Are you ready for this, Kim? Does cloning give women the power to reproduce without men? Have you heard about this?

MS. MANCE: Absolutely not. I think that's coming straight from the mentality that's been perpetuated throughout history of being exclusive. And, like I said, you know, women trying to come into power isn't an issue of them feminizing society. It's equalizing society.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you think that men are trouble in society, more so than women?

MS. MANCE: There are lots of statistics about that.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Given to habits of rage, et cetera.

MR. BLANKLEY: Two quick points, John. First, aggression is needed to accomplish things. And whether it's going to be men or women, humanity will only advance with aggressive activity.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Tell that to (Joe Stalin ?).

MR. BLANKLEY: Aggression is --

MR. BUCHANAN: That's exactly right. The creative impulse to drive the energy and fire of artists and scientists and political leaders and others, which is heavily concentrated, or has been, in men is what has advanced the entire human race.

MS. CLIFT: Women are not trying to get rid of men. Women just want their fair share in the public life. It is not a zero-sum society. If women --

MR. BLANKLEY: I completely agree.

MS. CLIFT: -- get a job or get into politics, it doesn't mean that men are being tossed out.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Are you against cloning humans?

MR. BUCHANAN: Oh, yeah, I'm against that.

MR. BLANKLEY: But John, you could equally clone from men.

MR. BUCHANAN: Exactly.

MR. BLANKLEY: Neither men nor women are necessary. MR. BUCHANAN: Why would you need women?

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, men cannot give birth.

MR. BUCHANAN: But if you're cloning, why do you need them?

MR. BLANKLEY: But cloning isn't birth. You take your toenail and we can create another John McLaughlin out of it.

MR. BUCHANAN: Yeah.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well.

MS. CLIFT: Now, there's a thought. (Laughs.)

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I'll have to give this a second thought. (Laughter.)

Exit question: Will men become obsolete? Yes or no. Pat Buchanan.

MR. BUCHANAN: They'll be running the show from time immemorial, John. (Laughs.)

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor.

MS. CLIFT: No, and especially politics is a blood sport.

The men aren't going to give that up easily, if at all.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: That's a point, whether or not men will surrender.

MR. BLANKLEY: Humanity may be obsolete, but neither men nor women -- (inaudible).

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you think men will become obsolete?

MS. MANCE: No, sir, I do not.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I don't think right now that's the case, but it could be on the -- cloning could be on the horizon.

MR. BUCHANAN: You're making a good case.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Issue Four: Boys Will Be Boys.

CONN IGGULDEN (author): (From videotape.) We can pretend that they're growing up faster and they're somehow more sophisticated now, but they're not. We are. They're still quite willing to do the things that we used to do as kids.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Don't write the obituary for masculinity yet. There is a backlash against the feminization of society. Parents are snapping up copies of "The Dangerous Book for Boys." The book revives the lost arts of boyhood like tying knots, building go-karts, skinning a rabbit, tanning its hide. It also features the kind of battle scenes that fascinate boys, like the battle of Waterloo that brought down Napoleon.

The politically incorrect bestseller is the product of Conn Iggulden and his brother Hal.

Question: Why has "The Dangerous Book for Boys" become a bestseller? I ask you, Tony.

MR. BLANKLEY: Well, I haven't read the book, but obviously it's playing to a natural instinct, which is to stop feminizing boys, to understand that overactive little boys is a fairly natural condition most of the time. There are chemical imbalances, but an awful lot of boys have been given chemicals when they don't need it. They're just naturally active.

I've raised two boys. They're both teenagers. I have a young daughter also. I know a lot of young boys as they grew up, friends of my sons, and I think it's very healthy for them to be aggressive in playing games.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor, do you see a deliberate --

MS. CLIFT: I'm the mother of three boys, but I don't think people are trying to feminize boys. What this book is doing -- they should write one for girls, too. We have a society now that sits with video games on the couch in front of a TV. This is get out and enjoy the outdoors, except for the rabbit tanning and hiding; I don't go for that. But all the rest of the childhood games -- wonderful. Bring them back. Write the same book for girls.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you see any force out there that's trying to psychologically neuterize boys with Ritalin and things like that?

MR. BUCHANAN: Yes, I do. Well, Ritalin is terrible, in my judgment. But the demasculinization of boys, I think, is terrible in society. I like the idea of the way some of us grew up. When you went to high school, you went with boys. And when you went to college, you went with men, and that you are different. And I think to maintain those differences, quite frankly, and to treat boys as young men --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Predictions. Pat.

MR. BUCHANAN: Supporting the thrust of your show, John, if you had to pick one of, say, the 10 or 20 candidates out there today who is most likely to be nominated and most likely to be elected, I think you would have to pick today Hillary Rodham Clinton.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor.

MS. CLIFT: Women are seen as reformers. And I think in 2008 you're going to see a record number of women elected across the board.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Tony.

MR. BLANKLEY: The sex that's most vulnerable to genetic engineering disparity is, in fact, women. Where people have choices around the world, they choose to have male children rather than female children.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Kim.

MS. MANCE: I think the world is going to become a better place when men muster up that manly courage to accept women as their counterparts, as equals. MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You don't think we're there yet.

MS. MANCE: Not quite, but getting there gradually.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What about what was said here about Hillary, that she has cleared that hurdle?

MR. BUCHANAN: Well, I clearly think she -- would you not agree she's the number one possibility, if you had to pick one right now?

MS. CLIFT: The biggest hurdle for women is are they tough enough, and nobody worries whether Hillary is tough enough.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I predict that the male monopoly in the White House will end within six years.

Bye-bye.

END.